You Never Win

LUNATICS ANONYMOUS: I have been sober for two years today. You’re not sober, you’re just abstinent. OK, I’m just abstinent, not sober and I haven’t had a drink for two years. You might be abstinent but, you’re not sober. You’re just a dry drunk. OK, I’m just a sober dry drunk. No, you’re not sober. OK, I’m just an abstinent dry drunk. You might be dry but, you don’t have sobriety. I thought I was sober. You might be sober but, you don’t have good sobriety. Is there a difference? Yes, there is. There is abstinent sobriety but, you have bad sobriety. What, I have bad sobriety? Yes, because you are not in recovery. I thought I was in recovery whereas I haven’t had a drink in two years. You’re not in recovery, you are only around recovery. You never recover. I thought that because I’m in recovery that I was sober. No, you never recover, you’re just abstinent. But, I attend A.A. every day. That doesn’t matter because, you are only around A.A., and you’re not in A.A. But, I’m in the program. Yes, you’re in the program but, you’re not working a good program. OK, I’m only around A.A., working a bad program and not sober. But, I am working the 12 steps. No, you only think you are working the steps. I thought if I was abstinent and attending A.A. that I was in recovery. No, that’s your problem, you only thought you were sober. I thought that I had good sobriety as I was attending A.A. That’s another problem you have. You’re thinking, when you were told to sit down, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. But, I can’t talk with the cotton in my mouth. That’s good, because you don’t know what you are talking about, just sit there for 90 days and don’t talk or think. But, I think I am sober. No, you’re just not drinking, you don’t have quality sobriety. What, there is good sobriety and bad sobriety and now quality sobriety? Yes there is and you don’t have either or. You’re just a dry drunk. How can I be drunk if I’m sober? I told you that you’re not sober, you’re just not drinking. OK. F**K this bullshit, I think I’ll go the bar and have a few drinks.

Re-posted with permission from Lunatics Anonymous

 

Stinkin’ Thinkin’ Slogan Contest!

Update Update: We have some pretty good ones. Agent Mango came with some nice ones. It is kind of nice to see that most of our AA friends don’t like the slogans and aphorisms, either. Just so you folks know, I am using one of these pens, and it writes really well. It has nice feel to it.

UPDATE: These are supposed to be your creation, not slogans already in use. I’ve seen three pretty good ones so far:

“AA: Because thinking is hard” by Sunny
“It’s time to harvest the crust from your eyes” by Sunny
“Just Quit, It’s the Bees Knees” by Tony (must be said sarcastically, but still not bad)
“I have a disease that tells me I don’t have a disease” me, which I stole from Corky the Twelve-Step Monkey
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It’s time to put on your thinkin’ caps and stir up those creative juices, kids. We are having a competition to see who can come up with the best thought stopping AA slogan. Submissions will be graded on catchiness, inanity, wit, thought stoppability, serenity, flavor and rigorous honesty. Everyone is eligible. Easy does it!

The winner gets this inspirational serenity pen (really, we’ll send it to you):

Good Luck!!!

 

Quote of the Day

“When I see a 9/11 victim family on television, or whatever, I’m just like, ‘Oh shut up’ I’m so sick of them because they’re always complaining.”

– Glenn Beck, AA, advising the families of 9/11 victims to get off the pity pot.

 

Quote of the Day

“You amaze me. Why so bitter and angry ? Why do you feel the need to bash AA every chance you can get. You should know by now there is a big difference between religion and spirituality. I have been a member of AA for almost 8 years — highly involved in service. I am only 26 and am the future if you want to say.

My own conception of something greater than my self has enabled me to live an incredibly productive life. My Higher Power is so far off the beam than conventional religious beliefs it would make peoples toenails curl. But, above all else it works.

AA does not demand a Christian God. It only suggests a God of your own understanding. So if you read the big book a little closer and lay aside your prejudice, even the biggest atheist or agnostic can recover. If you really want to get technical; if it was not for AA you would not be here. AA is the granddaddy of all 12-Step programs.

love and service,

KB.”

– KB, AA, explaining to Cliff Walker at Positive Atheism the difference between Spirituality and Religious.

 

Welcome New AA Members!

I can tell you from first hand experience that Canadian beer is like moonshine, but good gawd almighty, these first two stories are ridiculous:

Here is a fun story from Chipman, New Brunswick, about an AA who fell off the wagon. His name is George Chisholm, but in keeping with AA’s tradition of anonymity, we will just call him “George C”. Apparently, George C got liquored up and felt up a couple of strangers in an apartment complex. An AA apologist might explain this away by saying the reason this happened is because he was not working the steps. That might explain why God was not helping George C, but it seems like he could looked out for poor gals who got molested.

Not to worry. George is back in AA.

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Another Canuck, Tracy Wood, got liquored up in a Kingston, Ontario bar and started showing his ass:

“Scott described to the judge how Wood came up behind the woman, placed her in a bear hug with his arms pressing against her breasts and ground his pelvis into her buttocks, announcing “I love you.”

He then slid one of his hands down the front of her shirt, grabbed her breast and pulled it out, exposing her to the bar’s customers.

She was rescued from him and Wood was again ordered to leave. But Hunter was told he persisted in his pursuit of the woman. Scott said the second time he captured her in a bear hug and professed his love, however, he slid his hand down her pants and managed to fondle her buttock before the bouncer on duty intervened and freed her.”

What better place for him than Alcoholics Anonymous, where he has been attending since his meltdown.

 

More Fun With Numbers

One common thing that AAs do who enter the effectiveness of AA debate, is cite ridiculous sources, or information they do not fully understand. This is the case today with a regular reader of the blog, McGowdog, who cut and pasted from a paper that was written by three AAs, including Glenn Chestnut, who once wrote this about AA:

“…unbelievers will quickly start running you around in logical circles which you will never get out of — so I don’t even try to defend it rationally and logically.”

He was not kidding, either. He and his two cohorts came up with this review of AA’s triennial survey’s. Logical, it was not. It was obviously not written by academics who understand how to interpret the data properly. When I first read this, its conclusions were so far off base, that I gave it to some cohorts of mine at Harvard who specialize in such things. I thought maybe I was missing something. They dismissed it as “junk science”, and we actually wrote about this here last April: How Alcoholics Anonymous Lies With Statistics. It summarizes the way the data in this review was manipulated.

Most of what McGowdog wrote below is plagiarized from this paper. This is another piece of fool’s gold for someone who desperately wants to believe the steps are effective. One rule to remember in reading this: academic language does not make a paper academic.

 

The Communion Question – More Fun From The Wackos at Sober Recovery

There is an interesting thread started by our friends over at the Sober Recovery forum about whether an alkie should receive the communion wine during the Eucharist ceremony in the Catholic Church. This is an interesting question that I have seen discussed before, and as usual, there is no shortage of opinions from the wackos at that forum – ranging from reasonable to ridiculous. As is typical with AAs, the answers are full of rationalizations and faulty logic, and they all evade the obvious questions that come to the minds of those of us who aren’t under the AA spell, most notably – why would a person’s higher power ask them to drink in the first place?

The answer to this is simple for a true believer in the Catholic faith, because according to the church, once the bread and wine become consecrated in the Eucharist, it ceases to be bread and wine, and becomes the body and blood of Christ – literally. When one consumes the communion wine, they are literally drinking the blood of Christ. So, for a true believer, this question should have never been asked, because drinking blood should not cause an alcoholic to slip. Particularly the blood of your personal deity.

For a non-Catholic, this question should also be simple, as the wine is simply representative of Christ’s blood, and can therefore be substituted with grape juice or any other drink for that matter. Still, it begs the question of why one’s higher power would play such games with the person He loved so much that He removed their character flaws and restored their serenity. I think if Jesus is powerful enough to do that, then He can surely make a sip of wine innocuous. I don’t think a lot of these AAs who have responded in this thread have thought this one all the way through. Some have advised this person not to drink the wine, as it could cause a slip, and has caused slips in others.

I could not be an AA simply because this whackadoodle logic drives me nuts. Any question that comes up that is not neatly answered in the ‘Big Book’ becomes an exercise in the ridiculous. Someone should start a thread asking them to explain the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground. Their fucking heads would explode.

 

BITE Model and Alcoholics Anonymous

My most recent post, which examined the thought control of AA based on Robert Lifton’s criteria from his study of totalism, started a pretty good dialog over whether AA is truly a cult or not. Some really good and interesting points were made, among them this once from Cuda:

“Rather than debate whether AA is a “Cult” or not let’s just ask, “What isn’t a “Cult?”

Most Religions fall under this umbrella joined by most, if not all, spiritual fellowships. AA is on this list. The Oxford Group is still around under a different name. What about The Masons? Knights of Columbus, etc… What about Fraternal Orginizations? Moose, Elks, Rotary? Ad infinitum!!

Who isn’t a “Cult” by these standards is the question. In fact, if that’s what a “Cult” is, I’ll take it. A lot of good comes from these “Cults” as you call them.

I believe if anyone has the desire to call AA a “Cult” in the same fashion that we would refer to The Branch Davidians, Peoples Temple, Heavens Gate, etc… you’re really scraping for fuel to keep your torch lit.”

I understand Cuda’s point, although I think comparing Rotary with a cult is like diagnosing someone a narcissist because they will on occasion perform a selfish act, or might be proud of his or herself for a particular accomplishment. A healthy ego does make person a narcissist, just as secret handshakes esoteric rituals does not make a group a cult.

 

The Crazies at Sober Recovery: Real Alcoholics, the Big Book and Selective Altruism

Back in the 1500s, during the reign of King Henry VIII, the Church of England officially separated from the Catholic Church. This was justified for a number of reasons, from the corruption within the Catholic Church, to the newly formed protestant movement of Martin Luther. The straw that broke the camel’s back was the Pope’s refusal to grant King Henry a divorce, to which he declared “bollocks”, and officially established the Anglican Church. Since that time, a number of denominations have formed as an offshoot of the Anglican Church. The Episcopal Church is one example this, and from the Episcopal Church, other denominations formed. The reasons for these breakaway sects are numerous. In the case of the Episcopal Church, it broke away from The Church of England as a result of the American Revolution, and since that time other sects have broken away from it – for reasons ranging from a rogue, excommunicated priest who took his following along with him, to a fundamental difference in the interpretation of scripture, such as allowing women or homosexual priests.

This splintering of the church is not exclusive to Catholicism, and can be seen in just about any Christian denomination.

 

It Isn’t Religious, It’s Ridiculous

“In the 12 steps that I have read, it talks about giving things out of our control over to God as we understand him. That could be God, Bhudda, Vishnu, Mohammed, Mother Nature or your favourite rock star!”
— Lily, AA zealot

Came to believe that Mick Jagger ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Admitted to Iggy Pop, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Were entirely ready to have Meat Loaf remove all these defects of character.
Humbly asked Billy Idol to remove our shortcomings.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with Axl Rose, praying only for knowledge of Axl’s will for us and the power to carry that out.

I would love for an AA to explain to me how Billy Idol will remove my shortcomings and answer my prayers. How does it work? Will he call me once he receives my prayer?