LUNATICS ANONYMOUS: I have been sober for two years today. You’re not sober, you’re just abstinent. OK, I’m just abstinent, not sober and I haven’t had a drink for two years. You might be abstinent but, you’re not sober. You’re just a dry drunk. OK, I’m just a sober dry drunk. No, you’re not sober. OK, I’m just an abstinent dry drunk. You might be dry but, you don’t have sobriety. I thought I was sober. You might be sober but, you don’t have good sobriety. Is there a difference? Yes, there is. There is abstinent sobriety but, you have bad sobriety. What, I have bad sobriety? Yes, because you are not in recovery. I thought I was in recovery whereas I haven’t had a drink in two years. You’re not in recovery, you are only around recovery. You never recover. I thought that because I’m in recovery that I was sober. No, you never recover, you’re just abstinent. But, I attend A.A. every day. That doesn’t matter because, you are only around A.A., and you’re not in A.A. But, I’m in the program. Yes, you’re in the program but, you’re not working a good program. OK, I’m only around A.A., working a bad program and not sober. But, I am working the 12 steps. No, you only think you are working the steps. I thought if I was abstinent and attending A.A. that I was in recovery. No, that’s your problem, you only thought you were sober. I thought that I had good sobriety as I was attending A.A. That’s another problem you have. You’re thinking, when you were told to sit down, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. But, I can’t talk with the cotton in my mouth. That’s good, because you don’t know what you are talking about, just sit there for 90 days and don’t talk or think. But, I think I am sober. No, you’re just not drinking, you don’t have quality sobriety. What, there is good sobriety and bad sobriety and now quality sobriety? Yes there is and you don’t have either or. You’re just a dry drunk. How can I be drunk if I’m sober? I told you that you’re not sober, you’re just not drinking. OK. F**K this bullshit, I think I’ll go the bar and have a few drinks.

Re-posted with permission from Lunatics Anonymous


Here is a story out of Winnipeg about an AA whose character flaws include raping and beating women. His first victim was his ex-wife, who he met at an AA meeting. Naturally, AA welcomed him back with open arms. The second victim was another woman he had 13th stepped in AA and started dating, and though they had stopped dating, she remained his friend, and drove to his home to help him when he phoned her in a drunker stupor. She was met with this:

The man put duct tape over her face, bound her hands and legs together and then sodomized her. He also demanded she call her 18-year-old daughter to come over so he could sexually assault her while she watched. She was repeatedly beaten when she refused. The man also threatened to hit her with a lead pipe.

I wonder why this woman’s higher power™, an all-knowing AA god who was kind  enough to take away her shortcomings and keep her sober, would not keep her out of harms way by advising her not to show up at this guy’s home to help him in the first place.

Ask a true AA believer, and you will be told this guy was obviously not working the program correctly, or he would not have been drunk in the first place. Or, maybe he was not a real alcoholic, as the steps only work for real alcoholics. What I wonder is why his higher power™, who was standing idly by, waiting for him to really start working those steps properly, would not step in and intervene in this situation. It seems like if He (the higher power) were going to allow this guy to victimize a person, He would have forced this AA to grab a bat or a baton and sodomize himself. Now that would be a higher power™ I could believe in.

“You want an AA quote? I got one for ya….

….how about a haiku?

Stinkin’ Thinkin is stupid website…
Middle finger up, mind that finger bitches
Save some drama forya Mommas!

Wow! How’s that?”

McGowdog, AA, expressing his serenity and lack of resentments in haiku form.

Do you boys want me to pull this goddamn internet over? Because I sweardagod I will pull it over right now! Do not test me. I will stop the whole internet right here and end you all.

[An imagine of my mom just popped into my head: Trying to steer the car with one hand, swerving all over the road, while she flails her arm in the back seat trying to smack us around… and we’d laugh our heads off, while she got more pissed off trying to make contact. This was before booster seats and seat belts, so we could ninja. God, that was funny. I am about to become my mother, so hold onto your hat.]


 I’m glad to see Danny back – especially since I invited him back. I didn’t just invite him, I badgered him. (Yeah, tell me with a straight face you’re not glad he indulged me.) (more…)


My most recent post, which examined the thought control of AA based on Robert Lifton’s criteria from his study of totalism, started a pretty good dialog over whether AA is truly a cult or not. Some really good and interesting points were made, among them this once from Cuda:

“Rather than debate whether AA is a “Cult” or not let’s just ask, “What isn’t a “Cult?”

Most Religions fall under this umbrella joined by most, if not all, spiritual fellowships. AA is on this list. The Oxford Group is still around under a different name. What about The Masons? Knights of Columbus, etc… What about Fraternal Orginizations? Moose, Elks, Rotary? Ad infinitum!!

Who isn’t a “Cult” by these standards is the question. In fact, if that’s what a “Cult” is, I’ll take it. A lot of good comes from these “Cults” as you call them.

I believe if anyone has the desire to call AA a “Cult” in the same fashion that we would refer to The Branch Davidians, Peoples Temple, Heavens Gate, etc… you’re really scraping for fuel to keep your torch lit.”

I understand Cuda’s point, although I think comparing Rotary with a cult is like diagnosing someone a narcissist because they will on occasion perform a selfish act, or might be proud of his or herself for a particular accomplishment. A healthy ego does make person a narcissist, just as secret handshakes esoteric rituals does not make a group a cult. (more…)

“The only reason why God is mentioned at all, is because without God, alcoholics perish. But, it’s not good to present that fact until the alcoholic sees the hopelessness of their condition in the 1st Step” – McGowdog (Stinkin’ Thinkin’ reader and AA zealot)

“It all goes back to building our Program on a Truth or a lie.”
– Also McGowdog, written less than twelve hours after the first quote.

TimeFrankBuchmanBack in the 1500s, during the reign of King Henry VIII, the Church of England officially separated from the Catholic Church. This was justified for a number of reasons, from the corruption within the Catholic Church, to the newly formed protestant movement of Martin Luther. The straw that broke the camel’s back was the Pope’s refusal to grant King Henry a divorce, to which he declared “bollocks”, and officially established the Anglican Church. Since that time, a number of denominations have formed as an offshoot of the Anglican Church. The Episcopal Church is one example this, and from the Episcopal Church, other denominations formed. The reasons for these breakaway sects are numerous. In the case of the Episcopal Church, it broke away from The Church of England as a result of the American Revolution, and since that time other sects have broken away from it – for reasons ranging from a rogue, excommunicated priest who took his following along with him, to a fundamental difference in the interpretation of scripture, such as allowing women or homosexual priests.

This splintering of the church is not exclusive to Catholicism, and can be seen in just about any Christian denomination. (more…)