LUNATICS ANONYMOUS: I have been sober for two years today. You’re not sober, you’re just abstinent. OK, I’m just abstinent, not sober and I haven’t had a drink for two years. You might be abstinent but, you’re not sober. You’re just a dry drunk. OK, I’m just a sober dry drunk. No, you’re not sober. OK, I’m just an abstinent dry drunk. You might be dry but, you don’t have sobriety. I thought I was sober. You might be sober but, you don’t have good sobriety. Is there a difference? Yes, there is. There is abstinent sobriety but, you have bad sobriety. What, I have bad sobriety? Yes, because you are not in recovery. I thought I was in recovery whereas I haven’t had a drink in two years. You’re not in recovery, you are only around recovery. You never recover. I thought that because I’m in recovery that I was sober. No, you never recover, you’re just abstinent. But, I attend A.A. every day. That doesn’t matter because, you are only around A.A., and you’re not in A.A. But, I’m in the program. Yes, you’re in the program but, you’re not working a good program. OK, I’m only around A.A., working a bad program and not sober. But, I am working the 12 steps. No, you only think you are working the steps. I thought if I was abstinent and attending A.A. that I was in recovery. No, that’s your problem, you only thought you were sober. I thought that I had good sobriety as I was attending A.A. That’s another problem you have. You’re thinking, when you were told to sit down, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. But, I can’t talk with the cotton in my mouth. That’s good, because you don’t know what you are talking about, just sit there for 90 days and don’t talk or think. But, I think I am sober. No, you’re just not drinking, you don’t have quality sobriety. What, there is good sobriety and bad sobriety and now quality sobriety? Yes there is and you don’t have either or. You’re just a dry drunk. How can I be drunk if I’m sober? I told you that you’re not sober, you’re just not drinking. OK. F**K this bullshit, I think I’ll go the bar and have a few drinks.

Re-posted with permission from Lunatics Anonymous

Here is a story out of Winnipeg about an AA whose character flaws include raping and beating women. His first victim was his ex-wife, who he met at an AA meeting. Naturally, AA welcomed him back with open arms. The second victim was another woman he had 13th stepped in AA and started dating, and though they had stopped dating, she remained his friend, and drove to his home to help him when he phoned her in a drunker stupor. She was met with this:

The man put duct tape over her face, bound her hands and legs together and then sodomized her. He also demanded she call her 18-year-old daughter to come over so he could sexually assault her while she watched. She was repeatedly beaten when she refused. The man also threatened to hit her with a lead pipe.

I wonder why this woman’s higher power™, an all-knowing AA god who was kind  enough to take away her shortcomings and keep her sober, would not keep her out of harms way by advising her not to show up at this guy’s home to help him in the first place.

Ask a true AA believer, and you will be told this guy was obviously not working the program correctly, or he would not have been drunk in the first place. Or, maybe he was not a real alcoholic, as the steps only work for real alcoholics. What I wonder is why his higher power™, who was standing idly by, waiting for him to really start working those steps properly, would not step in and intervene in this situation. It seems like if He (the higher power) were going to allow this guy to victimize a person, He would have forced this AA to grab a bat or a baton and sodomize himself. Now that would be a higher power™ I could believe in.

One of our readers e-mailed us this link from of a couple of people debating whether or not AA is a cult. It was interesting, and included most of the points that have been discussed here ad nauseum. Of course, it was slightly different in tone, as neither person spewed any racial slurs or aphorisms.

“Considering the chronic nature of alcoholism and the amazingly low rate of recovery using other methods God’s work in AA is inescapable.”

- cknuck, an AA, who is responding to an article on alternative alcohol addiction treatments.

One of my favorite jokes starts out with a guy on his first day in prison, who upon meeting his new cell-mate is confronted with the question, “would you like to be the ‘husband’ or ‘the wife’?” Neither of those is a particularly favorable answer. Back in the days of the Salem witch trials, defendants were tossed into a pond. Those who sank and drowned were found innocent of being a witch, and those who floated were found guilty and executed. Given the choice of being tried as witch, or confronted with the two options that were given to the new prisoner, I’m not sure which one I would want to take.

The two examples above are known as double binds. A double bind is one of those “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” kind of dilemmas. The term was created by Gregory Bateson, a British linguist who studied schizophrenia, where he used the term “double bind” to describe as a symptom the stress that schizophrenics feel when perceiving two conflicting messages. A double bind as used by Bateson is a communication dilemma, and can be conveyed both verbally and non-verbally. Double binds are used by abusers of all sorts, particularly among authority figures. I recently read about a priest who had molested a number of kids over the years, always telling him that he loved them, God loved them, and they should not tell anyone about the abuse because nobody else would understand, so they should leave it between the child, the priest and God. The double bind for the children were:

If they did tell anyone: They would be breaking a covenant with God.
If the didn’t tell anyone: The abuse would continue. (more…)


I’ve been out of commission, but I will be back very soon. I did, however, want to come on and announce:

Today is friendthegirl’s burfday!

How did a person get so wise, at such a young age?

Happy Birtday, FTG!

There is an interesting thread started by our friends over at the Sober Recovery forum about whether an alkie should receive the communion wine during the Eucharist ceremony in the Catholic Church. This is an interesting question that I have seen discussed before, and as usual, there is no shortage of opinions from the wackos at that forum – ranging from reasonable to ridiculous. As is typical with AAs, the answers are full of rationalizations and faulty logic, and they all evade the obvious questions that come to the minds of those of us who aren’t under the AA spell, most notably – why would a person’s higher power ask them to drink in the first place?

The answer to this is simple for a true believer in the Catholic faith, because according to the church, once the bread and wine become consecrated in the Eucharist, it ceases to be bread and wine, and becomes the body and blood of Christ – literally. When one consumes the communion wine, they are literally drinking the blood of Christ. So, for a true believer, this question should have never been asked, because drinking blood should not cause an alcoholic to slip. Particularly the blood of your personal deity.

For a non-Catholic, this question should also be simple, as the wine is simply representative of Christ’s blood, and can therefore be substituted with grape juice or any other drink for that matter. Still, it begs the question of why one’s higher power would play such games with the person He loved so much that He removed their character flaws and restored their serenity. I think if Jesus is powerful enough to do that, then He can surely make a sip of wine innocuous. I don’t think a lot of these AAs who have responded in this thread have thought this one all the way through. Some have advised this person not to drink the wine, as it could cause a slip, and has caused slips in others.

I could not be an AA simply because this whackadoodle logic drives me nuts. Any question that comes up that is not neatly answered in the ‘Big Book’ becomes an exercise in the ridiculous. Someone should start a thread asking them to explain the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground. Their fucking heads would explode.

The primary objective of the 12-steps is not to rid people of their drinking addictions. Drinking abstinence is simply a consequence of an an overall character change. This is not a surprise to those of us familiar with the AA program, and even those who work the steps and happily profess the virtues of AA will say the same thing. AAs believe that alcoholism is a result of a spiritual weakness, which is a result of character flaws, which are largely the result of ego and self absorption – and working the steps will rid us of these character weaknesses, one of which is alcoholism.

The only way of achieving sobriety through AA is for a person to admit his or her powerlessness over alcohol. It is the first step, after all, and any AA – even those who don’t work all of the steps – will say that the first step is essential. Powerlessness of the individual is the cornerstone on which AA and the 12-step program is built, and it achieves this belief among its members in a number of ways. (more…)

Here is an interesting news story about guy in Portland, Maine; who was arrested yesterday for terrorizing, stalking his AA group, possession of a firearm by a felon and possession of a firearm in a school zone. Good times….good times. Sigh.

The arrested man, Herbert Jones (or Herbert J., as I will call him to protect his anonymity), made a reference to pedophiles being in the group. There were no convicted pedophiles at the meeting, although this guy may have heard a confession or two from those within the group. If that is the case, those pedophiles are protected from any AA confessions being used against them in court, as the courts have ruled AA to be a religious organization, and those confessions are like confessions given to any clergy. The guy could just be delusional, in which case I am surprised he left AA to begin with, as I would think it would be the perfect place for him.

I’m not sure how AA failed this guy. Maybe it was as simple as him doing something stupid, like making Rambo his higher power. Maybe he is just an over zealous 13th stepper who had heard one too many aphorism, and couldn’t take it anymore. Whatever the case, this guy fell well short of the promises offered to him in the ‘Big Book’. I’m surprised this kind of thing does not happen at meetings more often. Mixing together so many narcissistic egomaniacs and court appointed felons in one room is a lethal enough cocktail, and enough to make any self respecting wingnut go postal.


Apparently, he was delusional. This begs the question: If God was removing this guy’s shortcomings, why not start out with his bipolar disorder? Maybe he just didn’t make it to step 7, in which case I’ll give God a pass.

This is a conversation about 13th stepping with the good folks who belong to the “Friends of Bill W” group. Some of these guys would even make our friend, McGowdog, blush. Here is the original post:

ok guys, we’re having a going away party for one of our dear friends who is moving forward on his path. one of the events we’re having at the part is 13 Step Twister. i would love it if you guys can share some of the best 13 step pick up lines you’ve heard over the years. remember cheezy is always good when it comes to pick up lines.

example…….i loved what you had to say at the podium, want to get some coffee?

Pretty cool, huh? I wonder if they played 13th Step Twister over at the Midtown group. Here are some of the fun responses. Tell me if you are impressed, ladies:

” Wanna come to my place and read the big book?”

“Let me help myself to your bottom.”

“Allow me to get you on your back – before you get on your feet”

“Let’s be of service to each other: You gotta give it up to keep it.””

“You can’t get drunk with a cock in yr mouth”

“I’m right behind you – I’ll guide you until you’re filled with a spiritual experience. Sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.”

“that hoop you have to jump through is not the only thing that is bigger than you think”

“They told me to get a service position – I like servicing newcomers, are you game?”

“‘That is a great shirt. Want to know what I call that color? Clitoral pink’. Yes indeedy, whispered in my ear by a 100 year old jerk who preyed on us at the in house rehab meeting.”

It makes sense that these folks refer to themselves as “Friends of Bill W”, because they emulate him so well. He claimed to be pious, but was in reality a womanizing scumbag who banged anything that moved. He even gave part of his estate away to his mistress. I guess these guys just learned by example. This attitude permeates AA, and is really scary considering some of the scoundrels who get sentenced to AA. Any social deviant who pleads the “I am an alcoholic and can’t help it” excuse, is very likely going to be sentenced to AA. What makes this more sickening, is these are the same folks who shove serenity prayers and sanctimonious quotes littered with God references down the throats of anyone who will listen.

Trust me on this one: If you were to call these guys out on this nonsense, the finger would be pointed at you in some way such as “stop taking other people’s inventory”. Or like is described in this post. It is all part of the giant mind fuck that is AA.


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