LUNATICS ANONYMOUS: I have been sober for two years today. You’re not sober, you’re just abstinent. OK, I’m just abstinent, not sober and I haven’t had a drink for two years. You might be abstinent but, you’re not sober. You’re just a dry drunk. OK, I’m just a sober dry drunk. No, you’re not sober. OK, I’m just an abstinent dry drunk. You might be dry but, you don’t have sobriety. I thought I was sober. You might be sober but, you don’t have good sobriety. Is there a difference? Yes, there is. There is abstinent sobriety but, you have bad sobriety. What, I have bad sobriety? Yes, because you are not in recovery. I thought I was in recovery whereas I haven’t had a drink in two years. You’re not in recovery, you are only around recovery. You never recover. I thought that because I’m in recovery that I was sober. No, you never recover, you’re just abstinent. But, I attend A.A. every day. That doesn’t matter because, you are only around A.A., and you’re not in A.A. But, I’m in the program. Yes, you’re in the program but, you’re not working a good program. OK, I’m only around A.A., working a bad program and not sober. But, I am working the 12 steps. No, you only think you are working the steps. I thought if I was abstinent and attending A.A. that I was in recovery. No, that’s your problem, you only thought you were sober. I thought that I had good sobriety as I was attending A.A. That’s another problem you have. You’re thinking, when you were told to sit down, take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth. But, I can’t talk with the cotton in my mouth. That’s good, because you don’t know what you are talking about, just sit there for 90 days and don’t talk or think. But, I think I am sober. No, you’re just not drinking, you don’t have quality sobriety. What, there is good sobriety and bad sobriety and now quality sobriety? Yes there is and you don’t have either or. You’re just a dry drunk. How can I be drunk if I’m sober? I told you that you’re not sober, you’re just not drinking. OK. F**K this bullshit, I think I’ll go the bar and have a few drinks.
Re-posted with permission from Lunatics Anonymous
March 31, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Is there a reason to have any interest in those people who type in black ink? Just curious, mind you.
March 31, 2010 at 1:50 pm
for me, yes there was an interest. the judge ordered me to when he sentenced me to an aa program instead of jail time for a dui. now there is a continued interest on my part because i feel a moral obligation to expose what a crock of shit aa is.
March 31, 2010 at 1:51 pm
that whole exchange, ma, was my aa experience.
March 31, 2010 at 2:15 pm
Don’t forget…
You were never an alcoholic to begin with.
And…
If you are recovered… why don’t you go out and have a few beers?
March 31, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Damn! This is the lunacy of AA in a nutshell. Circular reasoning, true scotsmen fallacies. The whole 9 yards of madness!!!
I am so glad that I am not a part of that madness any longer!!
March 31, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Yeah, I thought this was very good. You should go over and check out their site.
April 1, 2010 at 9:53 am
Yeah I will for sure. Thank you!
March 31, 2010 at 3:59 pm
I have no reason at all to take seriously anyone who says those words of fatuity that are typed in black ink. Those people are, clearly, gormless.
March 31, 2010 at 4:47 pm
this was a great post. i wonder how i could commit to this more. i just watched an astounding youtube video of “warning women” about aa. it made my hair stand up. everything that was said in that video was so so so dead on.,.i feel like there needs to be more education on this. i wish people had warned me. my step mother did sort of. she said, you do not get it. those people are basically the lowest common denominator of society. i feel like leafletting my town. obviously, i am not going to do that; i work in a school! yikers! but i want to. i feel like it is the right thing to do.
March 31, 2010 at 5:19 pm
The other day I was at a meeting minding my business. It was break and I was staring off into the distance as pleasant thoughts floated through my head. A member approached me and asked “what is wrong”? I said that I was feeling very well and enjoying the evening. His reply was “tell your face”. These little sayings are the tools of the program. They are damaging, rude, and manipulative.
April 1, 2010 at 9:52 am
What a jerk!
I would have told him to go f*** his face.
I have heard that phrase before when I went to
meetings.
It implies that a person is being dishonest and that the person asking the question can read a persons mind through a persons face. The reaction to the question is then – sort of a wtf reaction which confirms the questioners bias.
April 1, 2010 at 10:28 am
I know! When I saw tb’s comment, I got all pissed off. What an outrageous sense of entitlement!
For some reason, I have the kind of face that inspires dumbasses to march over to me and demand that I smile. Complete strangers. It happens ALL the time.
Once, I was with my step-mom when it happened, and she said to the guy, “What are you? The social director of her face? Fuck off.” Then I gave him a big ol’ grin.
Anyway, these people really should add one more step: “If you meet the Buddha, kill him.”
April 1, 2010 at 10:55 am
I hate that sh*t!
It is perhaps a bit unfortunate for you that jerks think they can try to manipulate you because your face inspires one of their predator instincts or something.
This can also perhaps be used to your advantage though – as it will help you see who the jerks are very quickly in any given social situation.
I like your step mother’s response- it made me lol.
The funny thing for me is, that, in the rooms I was known for both being compliant ( I really gave the 12 steps a shot and I worked hard at it for years and I had years of “sobriety in the program” ) and at the same time I was known as a person who snapped back at some of the assholes that populate the rooms.
As a result of this – I would often gain respect from members of the AA lunatic asylum who were soft peddlers of the program.
They would then sort of defend me against the jerks. It still did not save me years of heart ache though because I spent many years trying ” to get the program”. I am glad that I realized that there is not much to get in the program. Basically it is a bunch of f***ing nonsense and higher power gibberish, which is couched in pseudo psychological BS.
April 2, 2010 at 6:21 am
The guy was a Pacific Grouper here in Los Angeles, a militant cult group complete with a dress code and guru. I did tell him to f*&k himself, but regretted it later. I became uncivilized in my reaction. I wished I’d of asked him why he was being so rude, or, if he realized that his comment was damaging and abusive. The point is that this is the type of sophistry is rampant in AA.
July 9, 2012 at 8:30 am
I would have told him that my face wasn’t the one who had made the assumption that something was wrong.
March 31, 2010 at 6:01 pm
The best revenge is to live well.
Those people are not worth it.
April 1, 2010 at 4:24 am
I think these matters are beginning to come out into the daylight at last, having been cloaked with secrecy and anonymity for decades. Those shaming and blaming tactics were an effective tool for marginalising and silencing those who questioned the dogma in the rooms, but they are very counterproductive when used on the web. I’m pleased that so many cult zealots are posting so much weird 12 step propaganda (such as those dreadful films of Bill Wilson droning on about how he met God and how he helped a drugged and drunken doctor “carve up” a patient, and saying those who don’t follow his instructions will die). I think that kind of stuff will probably do more to make people think twice about getting involved with AA than any amount of criticism.
When ordinary reasonably intelligent and humane people view this kind of stuff out of curiosity they must wonder what drives this strange organisation and why so many of its adherents are so irrational and abusive.
April 1, 2010 at 6:34 pm
Yes, you can clearly see that the man is out of his mind.
April 1, 2010 at 1:43 pm
I basically don’t have a problem with the disease concept. However,I do have a problem with a closed, absolutest system of faith healing tied to an infallible doctrine that amounts to junk theology. If medical science operated on similar assumptions, doctors would still be bleeding people or trying to scare away bad humors with incantations and so forth. Aside from that, AA has an abysmal success rate.
It seems that addiction studies don’t merit serious attention in the medical community. The best and the brightest become cardiologists or neurosurgeons. Alcoholism and substance abuse have become a File 13 diagnosis. Alcoholics and addicts get a regimen of treatment similar to that of lunatics in the early 1800s who were once consigned places like Bedlam and given moral instruction as a remedy — at least when they weren’t being abused outright. Are drug and alcohol treatment facilities any different?
April 1, 2010 at 1:52 pm
I agree whats really dangerous is the fact that it is claimed to be infallible “It works if you work it”. This is damaging take the newly sober individual who is easily influenced and vulnerable give them this recipe which instills a heavy dose of hope. Which then leads to years of clinging to this and chasing their tails in the hope that one day they might “get it”
October 19, 2011 at 7:55 am
outkast albums…
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